Strange swastika on Bf-109

[Kreighshoer]

i found this in an amateur video from 1941, the bf-109 was part of a propaganda exhibition called "Wehr und Sieg" that took place in spring 1941.

has anybody of you ever noticed a luftwaffe swastika like that on a plane tail?

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saúl aka walking encyclopedia maybe?

 

[tomwes]

I don't think I've seen one like that, hopefully someone can 'splain it :idonno

 

[moon puppy]

Like I told you earlier Laura, if you didn't know about it, I don't know who would..

 

[Sharkmouth]

Like I told you earlier Laura, if you didn't know about it, I don't know who would..

I agree. I have not noticed this, probably personal, design before. Strange that it was allowed though as it is part of the National markings.

[hide]Here is a link to the film form which the still is culled:

Click the picture and go to 5:15 to see the Bf-109E-3.[/hide]

Regards,

 

[Kreighshoer]

Like I told you earlier Laura, if you didn't know about it, I don't know who would..

I agree. I have not noticed this, probably personal, design before. Strange that it was allowed though as it is part of the National markings.

what i said to you bob, i can't see no reason why this should be a personal modification, the more since it was the national insignia!

- low visibility? no!
- personal modification? only if the pilot was suicidal!
- sloppy paintjob? too precise and too early in the war!

maybe the whole squadron used this style of swastika but still - why? how? quis? quid? quomodo? cur? quando? quibus auxiliis?

 

[chukw]

It looks to me as if a heavy mottle had been carefully added over a pale background- and the spaces between the arms of the cross left unmodified. An early experiment in the process, perhaps?

Interesting!

 

[reconron]

With those lines between the hooks the swastika stands out more.
Maybe it is plausible,it was at a propaganda exhibition after all,that this was
some kind of PROPAGANDA marking!

But then again, Chukw could also be right.
[just my 2 Eurocents]



Greetings,Ron,

 

[mlp]

It looks to me as if a heavy mottle had been carefully added over a pale background- and the spaces between the arms of the cross left unmodified. An early experiment in the process, perhaps?

Interesting!

Second that!

As far as I remember the early swastikas were inner black the a white frame and then a small black frame.

Early 109 often had a light blue tail and were mottled later and then often the light blue between the hooks were just left. You also find several 109er which do have light blue around the swastika.

It's hard to tell on this pic, but one could think the light stripes between the hooks are a little darker than the white frame.


just my two cents

 

[Sharkmouth]

If a cardboard square were placed over the swastika while mottling, I can see this happening.

Regards,

 

[Ken Abrams]

Inverting the colors leads me to believe they aren't just a background color bleeding through, but purposely put there for whatever reason.

Just my opinion though.

:v

 

[moon puppy]

I think y'all are on the right track, the color between the hooks does seem to be the same as on the side of the fuselage.

 

[Sharkmouth]

Well, Ken, I think your inversion actually helps my point:

Regards,

 

[moon puppy]

Inverting the colors leads me to believe they aren't just a background color bleeding through, but purposely put there for whatever reason.

Just my opinion though.

:v

:huh:

looks like you're right also. but doesn't it look like the same color as leading edges of the tail plane?

 

[Ken Abrams]

But you could point that arrow at other places on the picture which show the same 'color'.

My inversion isn't to show the similarities in color but the sharpness of the lines. (because as we all know, judging colors from BW photos is just not very accurate)


*Further more, if you actually watch the video that 'mottling' seems to move and change on the plane with the wind, (especially on the tail fin) and the rest of the plane doesn't seem to be mottled. I think that's merely shadows of the leaves on the tree above it and not actually mottling.



...but again, this is just my opinion, nothing more.

:v

 

[Ken Abrams]

*Further more, if you actually watch the video that 'mottling' seems to move and change on the plane with the wind, (especially on the tail fin) and the rest of the plane doesn't seem to be mottled. I think that's merely shadows of the leaves on the tree above it and not actually mottling.

 

[moon puppy]

yeah, hard to say. I'm of the opinion that it was there on purpose.

For some reason, I thought there was a swastika design that had gold lines coming from inside the hook. Maybe in some ceremonial content.

 

[Sharkmouth]

shadows of the leaves on the tree above it and not actually mottling.

I agree that the leaves are casting moving shadows but there is painted mottling there. Early in 1940, the Luftwaffe decided that aerial camouflage was more important than ground camouflage and switched from dark greens on the visible upper surfaces to lighter gray (RLM02) and Dark Green (RLM71) with the Gray replacing the Black-Green (RLM70). To visually lighten the aircraft, the undersufcae light blue (RLM55) was brought up very high on the fuselage sides and completely covered the vertical tail.

Note the vertical tail on the Bf-109 in the background.

This began with Bf-109E-4 production while this aircraft shown is an earlier model (Bf-109E-3). The earlier models were repainted under this new directive so masking was probably used to save having to paint the national markings again. This also explains the swastika with a black outline designed to make the white more visible.

Flying over the English Channel and over the British countryside did make the light colored fuselages stand out so several squadrons began using randomly sprayed blotches (mottling, if you will) to darken the vertical sides of the fuselage and fin. Again, masking the markings saves time from having to repaint them.

All theory, but it works for me.

Regards,

 

[jknaus]

I've looked through my books and on the net. Closest thing I can find is that this is:
Amateur film showing the "Wehr und Sieg" war material exhibition, 4.7.-3.8. 1941 Hamburg (scroll forward to 5:00 min.). While these are WW2 trophies (and Wehrmacht equipment such as an Bf 109), I think a fair part of the artillery pieces are of WW1 vintage

Found that on another site.
Okay now I think this is a D. When you look at 4.40 into the movie it is dark, but the chin is very notaceable. Also as they pan along the cowling there is no scoop and the clincher is the prop is 2 bladed. All the Emils I've seen are 3 bladed. I dont know if this might be a training unit or a spare D soon to be scrapped which has had spurious markings installed. Otherwise I cant find anything.
James

 

[Sharkmouth]

Okay now I think this is a D. When you look at 4.40 into the movie it is dark, but the chin is very notaceable. Also as they pan along the cowling there is no scoop and the clincher is the prop is 2 bladed.

Great catch James!

The D version was still used in combat. Here are some night fighting in Norway:

Regards,